While a live video feed from the copter to the controller wouldn’t guarantee good judgment calls, I still think the controller should have that as an additional source of information, especially when verbal report can be so fatally flawed.

“It’s a war and the only way to avoid these incidents is to avoid war altogether.”

I’m certainly not going to argue with you about the desirability of avoiding war altogether, but until we get there, I do think more could be done to avoid these types of incidents. A live video feed, for example, might even encourage more careful verbal reporting, for example. Also covering stuff up and not holding people accountable does nothing to discourage this sort thing.

The long barreled weapon you see is indeed an RPG. The AK-47 is a short-barreled weapon. The Apache crew mis-identified the camera slings as shoulder hung weapons, and then correctly identified weapons in an area where ground troops had been attacked.

In so far as a live video feed, I’m not sure how effective that would be. The “Predator” unmanned aircraft is as real-time as it gets, with less risk as there isn’t a pilot directly in harms way…and yet it seems to me that at least once a month I’m reading about an errant Predator attack that resulted in either unarmed civilian deaths, or friendly fire deaths.

It’s a war and the only way to avoid these incidents is to avoid war altogether.

Your point about a threatening posture with guns is well taken. As I understand it, it isn’t an offense to carry a gun in Baghdad.

And thanks Maloy49 for pointing out that there are guns visible if you look closely after the time point you mention. I see two guys with what appear to be long barreled weapons pointed at the ground. I don’t see any RPG and the guy reporting to control doesn’t mention it at that point either. He says “Have five to six indivduals with AK47s.” Even though there only appear to be two weapons, that statement could be taken as true, as in five to six individuals collectively possessed of an unspecified number of AK47s (assuming that the long barreled weapons are AKs), though if I was depending on a verbal report, I would interpret that as five to six individuals each possessed of an AK47. This also makes my point. There’s nothing like seeing for oneself rather than depending on verbal report, and the one approving attacks should if at all possible have a real time video feed.

“…you may be a bit stunned when you hear the gunner reporting that he sees people with RPGs and AK47s, because that simply isn’t apparent from the video.”

From the short version, the Apache crew initially mistakes the journalists shoulder-strapped cameras for weapons between 3:10 and 3:20. However, they correctly identify men carrying an RPG and an AK-47 between 3:40 and 3:45.

I would agree that opening up on that van seems to go beyond what was immediately necessary.

Also, should you chose to track my ID, I am a civilian who happens to live in the D.C. area.

The funny thing is i never seen on the video anyone shooting at them and the MSNBC Panel discussion says it all. (expecaily about the van picking up the wonded.)

and yes i know i am a poor speller but i made my point

You’ve posted from two ip addresses, 216.221.71.170 and 131.137.245.198 . The first appears to belong to an Ontario cable company. The second is indeed a military ip, though not American. It is associated with the Canadian Department of National Defense. I can post detailed lookup information if you wish to challenge it, though anyone who knows what they’re doing can find it from the ip addresses the same way I did.

I can understand the American military going into damage control mode and broadly employing their ‘discredit the journalist’ strategy, but I don’t understand why the Canadian military would be involved. Or are you an employee of the DND independently posting your own thoughts?

If you are a military hacker, I would ask you please not to try to break into the server to cover your tracks. I have an off-site backup of everything, so the exercise would be futile.

07:07 Yeah Bushmaster, we have a van that’s approaching and picking up the bodies.
07:14 Where’s that van at?
07:15 Right down there by the bodies.
07:16 Okay, yeah.
07:18 Bushmaster; Crazyhorse. We have individuals going to the scene, looks like possibly uh picking up bodies and weapons.
07:25 Let me engage.
07:28 Can I shoot?
07:31 Roger. Break. Uh Crazyhorse One-Eight request permission to uh engage.
07:36 Picking up the wounded?
07:38 Yeah, we’re trying to get permission to engage.
07:41 Come on, let us shoot!
07:44 Bushmaster; Crazyhorse One-Eight.
07:49 They’re taking him.
07:51 Bushmaster; Crazyhorse One-Eight.
07:56 This is Bushmaster Seven, go ahead.
07:59 Roger. We have a black SUV-uh Bongo truck [van] picking up the bodies. Request permission to engage.
08:02 Fuck.
08:06 This is Bushmaster Seven, roger. This is Bushmaster Seven, roger. Engage.

06:25:26 Helicopters notice a mini-van arriving, attempting to help Saeed.
06:25:58 Crazyhorse: “Roger. Break. Uh Crazyhorse One-Eight request permission to uh engage.”
06:26:29 Bushmaster gives permission to engage. Proceed to open fire on the mini-van.

The problem is, that’s not what he was approving. Did you actually watch the video?